| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| andyschmall |
Posted - 02/20/2009 : 12:20:40
Where is this new BIR website that was supposed to be up after the new year? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Travis Sorokie |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 11:19:01
"Trailers have wheels" ---Al Corda May, 2008
"Little things WILL make a difference where racer's show up in 2009"-Anonymous
See ya in Staging!!!
5939 S/ST
58 SS/KA
Internet Forum Racer Rehab Room #101---checking out soon! |
| andyschmall |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:57:21
I can agree with you there. So we have to bring the money races to Grove Creek!! An hour from the Twin Cities and St. Cloud! Cold day in hell before Grove Creek has a big dollar race...
Although we complain... you have to think of it this way. Between all of the tracks around here we get to be pretty good racers.
The spin to win at Rock Falls, and dialing without a time trial at Brainerd explains why we've sent a racer to Pomona every year since the program started!
One thing that I don't get is why Brainerd is charging for their "Test N Tune Plus" Does it really cost the track any more money? I think it should be a free incentive for people who are testing. I'm sure it would draw a few more testers.
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| Lenny5160 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:40:11
quote:
Originally posted by andyschmall
Yes. Although I'm not sure what you meant by that because all the payout suggestions that I made include good round money and a higher payout. All this thread is missing now is Travis.... I wonder if they locked him up for the night.
I know, Andy. My "no splits" record includes Byron so I also think their structure is good and is round-money based. I just don't think a track pulling a lot of racers from rural MN and states to the West can do what they are doing down there in northern Illinois. Bigger money to win and buybacks just add to the expense of racing and people start getting out the fishing rods and golf clubs. As it stands, I am 31 years old and am still a young punk in the lanes. I fear that this sport may not be around much longer (how many gearhead friends do you have at college?) as it is and would like to see something that keeps the more casual, hobbyist racers in the lanes for awhile.
Tony Leonard |
| andyschmall |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:25:18
Yes. Although I'm not sure what you meant by that because all the payout suggestions that I made include good round money and a higher payout. All this thread is missing now is Travis.... I wonder if they locked him up for the night.
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| Lenny5160 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:20:46
quote:
Originally posted by andyschmall
Woah Tony, the Thunder at the Lakes was a failure as soon as those full page ads hit National Dragster. There was no one there because the race was setup totally wrong. My dad likes to go to some of those big dollar races but we didn't go to that race because there was no round money and a big entry fee.
I was at Byron that weekend too, for the same reasons. Did you say you didn't go to a race because there was no round money???? 
Tony Leonard |
| andyschmall |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:14:10
Woah Tony, the Thunder at the Lakes was a failure as soon as those full page ads hit National Dragster. There was no one there because the race was setup totally wrong. My dad likes to go to some of those big dollar races but we didn't go to that race because there was no round money and a big entry fee. |
| 70 Boys |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:09:26
No they don't but they only have a fraction of the cars BIR does.
Their deal has always been a guaranteed payout no matter the car counts.
That's what has made those other tracks prosperous with low car counts at times. People keep going back for those reasons - they know what to expect and its always been the same. Consistency.
Dave |
| Lenny5160 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 23:04:05
quote:
Originally posted by Prixmo
Dave I was not directing my response at any one individual but just a general response to what i feel is unfair negativism towards BIR. Does Rock or Grove add their unpaid round money (odd number of cars) back into payouts? ( I really do not know the answer and am looking for clarification)
No, nobody does that and that is another area where buybacks <ducking the rock Andy is throwing> have been known to cause evil. Plenty of tracks out there have given a racer or two a free buyback to ensure a 3-car semifinal but that is neither here nor there.
Andy and Brandon, where is your dad? I have heard him expound on the virtues of a round money policy before. It gives your customers (racers) definitive knowledge of what they are racing for each and every round of every race no matter how many entered. It takes the same effort and skill to win 2 rounds no matter how many other pairs go down the track. Why should that same effort be rewarded on some occasions and not on others in the same class at the same track? How does that make sense? For that matter, why do the payouts for, say, 1/4 finalists get better along the scale even though no additional rounds were needed to get there? Now, more opponents (entries) create more rounds, and winning more rounds should pay more; I agree. But I would rather see 3rd round get paid all the time than the winner's purse increase by a paltry amount.
By staying home I am doing my part to keep the car count below 64, ensuring that third-round losers everywhere get their fair share!
Tony Leonard |
| Prixmo |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:50:05
quote:
Originally posted by 70 Boys
Prixmo I just read your post above. Im not saying or making BIR out to be the bad guy. I just reflected off the new BIR payout chart that you guys posted. I really like the payouts with a
request to split the remaining unpaid spots in the payout chart among the 3rd round losers. BIR has posted to already pay that full amount so does it seem unfair that I suggest to spread it out evenly to more cars ? I felt that was an honest and fair statement to make.
This is the BIR forum - We are here to suggest any supportive ideas and promote the sport of drag racing. With that said my intent was never to offend any of the BIR staff but to possibly help promote more interest to all parties involved.
Dave Engler
Dave I was not directing my response at any one individual but just a general response to what i feel is unfair negativism towards BIR. Does Rock or Grove add their unpaid round money (odd number of cars) back into payouts? ( I really do not know the answer and am looking for clarification)
Unfortunately those with the least amount of common sense are unaware of their lack of it |
| Lenny5160 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:40:21
quote:
Originally posted by Prixmo
Dave with your 75 car figure BIR is paying out 49.17% Using the same amount of entries and using the tracks entry fees both Rockfalls and Grovecreek are paying back 8-9% less than BIR Both tracks with lower overhead, neither track a National event caliber track, and neither tracks changing payouts until reaching additional rounds (BIR has multiple levels based on cars for same amount of rounds) So why is it ok for them to pay racers less and BIR is made to be the bad guys?
Let's use real numbers instead of pie-in-the-sky examples from the various payout charts. Percentages don't pay the track's bills. This is economies of scale. I think we can all agree that 75 cars is a legit number at BIR. How about a typical Rock Falls event with 28 cars in Super Pro:
1st Round 14 losers
2nd Round 7 losers
(3rd round loser)3rd Round 3 @ $50.00 $150.00
(Semis) 4th Round 2 @ $125.00 $250.00
(Final) 5th Round 1 @ $300.00 $300.00
1 @ $750.00 $750.00
Payout $1450.00 64.7%
Entry $80.00 $2240.00
Track's Take $790.00
Now, the track is paying almost 2/3 of the entry back to the racers and is keeping a profit of only $790 compared to over $3000 for BIR. Those are real-world numbers. You can talk about the overhead of the track and national-event blah blah blah but that stuff does not matter to me. I am a bracket racer. I would like to support the place if all else were equal, but I am not willing to impact my own bottom line to do so. Those are the facts.
Tony Leonard |
| 70 Boys |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:35:17
Prixmo I just read your post above. Im not saying or making BIR out to be the bad guy. I just reflected off the new BIR payout chart that you guys posted. I really like the payouts with a
request to split the remaining unpaid spots in the payout chart among the 3rd round losers. BIR has posted to already pay that full amount so does it seem unfair that I suggest to spread it out evenly to more cars ? I felt that was an honest and fair statement to make.
This is the BIR forum - We are here to suggest any supportive ideas and promote the sport of drag racing. With that said my intent was never to offend any of the BIR staff but to possibly help promote more interest to all parties involved.
Dave Engler
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| Lenny5160 |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:15:35
I made an edit to my previous post while you were typing, Andy, that mentions demographics of Byron's area. If you compared the populations within a 150 mile radius of each track, the difference would be absolutely staggering. An approximation of that difference will be reflected in the car count, not to mention the average household incomes within those circles. Apples and oranges, and Byron wasn't exactly overflowing with cars last season either. You know I love to race for money, but if it was a smart thing to do then someone would have done it already. Oh wait, it was tried once and I don't think it drew as many cars as a normal bracket race. Let's even forget the Legal-class side of that race and the scheduling debacle involved there.
Tony Leonard |
| 70 Boys |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:15:19
I want to make it clear that i like the BIR payouts for 2009 BUT it states that it pays out 16 places when it actually doesn't or wont.
I only mentioned it to spark an interest in maybe taking what the payout chart doesn't end up paying out and maybe splitting whats left between the 3rd rounds losers ? I think everyone makes out on that deal both the 3rd round losers and the top finishers AND even BIR.
Wouldn't this satisfy everyone involved without someone feeling short handed ? I think it's a good solution and felt it necessary to at least bring it up.
What do you guys think ? Bill ?
BIR is my home track and Bill works very hard at communicating with the racers which I appreciate.
Dave |
| Prixmo |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:09:50
Dave with your 75 car figure BIR is paying out 49.17% Using the same amount of entries and using the tracks entry fees both Rockfalls and Grovecreek are paying back 8-9% less than BIR Both tracks with lower overhead, neither track a National event caliber track, and neither tracks changing payouts until reaching additional rounds (BIR has multiple levels based on cars for same amount of rounds) So why is it ok for them to pay racers less and BIR is made to be the bad guys?
RockFalls
1st Round
2nd Round
(3rd round looser)3rd Round 10 @ $50.00 $500.00
(4th round looser)4th Round 5 @ $75.00 $375.00
(5th round looser)5th Round 3 @ $100.00 $300.00
(semi's)6th Round 1@ $150.00 $150.00
(Final) 7th Round 1@ $350.00 $350.00
1@ $850.00 $850.00
$2,525.00 42.08%
Entry $80.00 $6,000.00
$3,475.00
Grovecreek
1st Round
2nd Round
3rd Round 10 @ $40.00 $400.00
4th Round 5 @ $60.00 $300.00
5th Round 3 @ $105.00 $315.00
6th Round 1 @ $125.00 $125.00
7th Round 1 @ $300.00 $300.00
1 @ $750.00 $750.00
$2,190.00 41.71%
Entry $70.00 $5,250.00
$3,060.00
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| andyschmall |
Posted - 04/15/2009 : 22:02:47
Byron has a Pro Eliminator class that I think is $40 to enter and pays $1000 to win. The no-box racer who wants to race for big money can enter super pro (in the no box side), many super pro cars have so much money into them already that another couple hundred bucks spent on a race isn't going to matter, and everyone who doesn't want to race for the big money can enter pro for a chance at $1000. I don't see how a system like this could keep the bracket racers who want to keep expenses low from racing. |
